I think that the name of the chapter "Love", isn't just about Jimmy's love for Martha, but also the way O'Brien and Jimmy remember all these things about their comrades, and that there was a love between all of them.
Semi-related: O'Brien and Jimmy are friends at that point, and it sounds like they were pretty close in the war, too. In fact, Jimmy had a good relationship with most of the people he lead. He felt so guilty when Lavender was killed because he felt a connection with him and he was one of his men and friends.
Do you think Jimmy would have been a better leader if he would have had no emotional connection with his men? (This might be better fitting in another chapter, where the guilt actually happens, but this reminded me of it.) I also found a link that talks about the advantages and disadvantages of being connected with the people you lead.
Semi-related. If Jimmy had no conection to his men I don't think anyone would have survived the war. In military style training you become close to those that are around you. If you don't trust someone they don't trust you and the group falls apart.
If jimmy didn't have any emotional connection to his troops he would have failed as a leader. Connecting to others is one of the biggest skills you need to be a successful leader. By having a connection to his troops, he would have gone the extra mile to protect his troops and ensure their safety. If he didn't have any connection, the whole squad would work more as individuals than a team which would ultimately create failure. http://www.comparebusinessproducts.com/briefs/top-10-leadership-qualities
(Beil) Abby, I think your question fits with this chapter because isn't this the chapter where they bring up Jimmy's guilt towards the death and how Jimmy doesn't want O'Brien to mention it? I think if Jimmy was not emotionally connected to his men, he would have been a worse leader. The way I see things, having that relationship with the people under your command. Especially because the soldiers are so young; out there, fighting a hostile enemy, in a war they don't want to be part of, what they need most is a friend. Having a harsh commander would have just traumatized the soldiers even more than they already were. And I've noticed too, with many teenagers, they respond better to a friendly authority than to a disconnected, demanding one. The emotional connection also makes Jimmy closer to the rest of his command and it makes him more approachable, which I find good in a leader. That's just my opinion.
i think that Jimmy Cross ened up telling O'Brien what happened (or possibly what he believed happened) to Martha that explained the way she treated him at tyhe class reunion. we can only come to our own conclusion's because there is not enough said about this topic in the book.
I think that Jimmy Told O'Brien not to mention what happened to Martha. I think jimmy wanted to come across as the good guy and not mention what happened to her because it was not his business. He wants the book to seem like he is perfect for her and she would come and beg to be with him after she read the book.
This kind of goes along with what Lindsey says, but I'm a little confused as to why he doesn't want that kind of thing to be mentioned. Isn't love supposed to be a good thing? O'Brien talks about how much he loved Martha and how lovely she is, but why doesn't he want that mentioned? I think there is definitely a lot of unspoken background with it.
I do think that O'Brien wasn't allowed to mention what happened to Martha, but I wonder why O'Brien was allowed to mention all of the other details about Jimmy and Martha. If I were Jimmy, and I knew that there was going to be a book written about this "romance" in the first couple of chapters, I wouldn't want that published.
I find this chapter to be a bit odd, considering how Jimmy Cross was still in love with Martha at the high school reunion in 1979. I'd always assumed that he was obsessed with Martha in Vietnam because he hated Vietnam, and Martha seemed perfect to him in comparison. Apparently, it was more than that, because he still loved her years later. Was anybody else surprised by that?
Well maybe it was because he was obsessed with her during the war that he was still obsessed with her after. Just like in Gatsby where he makes her out to be the perfect person for so long that he can't help not loving her.
I agree, although I was not that surprised. This lasting love was a reference and a reminder of one of the many fallouts of Vietnam. When the war ended, all those soldiers returned home to broken dreams, which were all put on hold while they were away. They fancied and enlarge their hopes and dreams while in the war as a mechanism for comfort. However, when they came home they often faced sad realities that were huge let downs. I can't even imagine.
I also think it's kind of odd but as we already know, those soldiers were face to face with death everyday. The one thing Jimmy had was Martha's letters and I think he wanted to hang on to her because she was the one thing that brought peace to him in the war. In war they will do anything to take their minds off of how frightened they are. Here's a picture of how scary the war was over there so you can relate to why he wanted to hang on to something he loved.
I don't think he was ever really in love with her, but rather the idea of her. And that is what he held unto: a thought, because that is all he had. I think he held unto this strange emotion for so long thereafter because he associated with Martha with this deep attachment built from his imagination and not reality.
I think that since Martha and Jimmy never really cleared things up he never really got the chance to get over her. He was hooked on her from the beginning and will be until the end, even if its him all alone.
I'm not going to say that I commend Jimmy Cross's obsessive behavior, but he really did need something to remind him of home, and that is what Martha was to him. And while his behavior is obsessive, what he feels for Martha seems to be love (although it is unrequited).
This is an article about how love differs from obsession. After reading it, I have to say Jimmy is closer to being in love than he is to being obsessed. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deborah-calla/the-difference-between-lo_b_562589.html
I think that the name of the chapter "Love", isn't just about Jimmy's love for Martha, but also the way O'Brien and Jimmy remember all these things about their comrades, and that there was a love between all of them.
ReplyDeleteSemi-related: O'Brien and Jimmy are friends at that point, and it sounds like they were pretty close in the war, too. In fact, Jimmy had a good relationship with most of the people he lead. He felt so guilty when Lavender was killed because he felt a connection with him and he was one of his men and friends.
DeleteDo you think Jimmy would have been a better leader if he would have had no emotional connection with his men? (This might be better fitting in another chapter, where the guilt actually happens, but this reminded me of it.) I also found a link that talks about the advantages and disadvantages of being connected with the people you lead.
http://www.businesscoachphil.com/leadership-styles-feared-or-loved
Semi-related. If Jimmy had no conection to his men I don't think anyone would have survived the war. In military style training you become close to those that are around you. If you don't trust someone they don't trust you and the group falls apart.
DeleteIf jimmy didn't have any emotional connection to his troops he would have failed as a leader. Connecting to others is one of the biggest skills you need to be a successful leader. By having a connection to his troops, he would have gone the extra mile to protect his troops and ensure their safety. If he didn't have any connection, the whole squad would work more as individuals than a team which would ultimately create failure.
Deletehttp://www.comparebusinessproducts.com/briefs/top-10-leadership-qualities
(Beil)
DeleteAbby, I think your question fits with this chapter because isn't this the chapter where they bring up Jimmy's guilt towards the death and how Jimmy doesn't want O'Brien to mention it?
I think if Jimmy was not emotionally connected to his men, he would have been a worse leader. The way I see things, having that relationship with the people under your command. Especially because the soldiers are so young; out there, fighting a hostile enemy, in a war they don't want to be part of, what they need most is a friend. Having a harsh commander would have just traumatized the soldiers even more than they already were. And I've noticed too, with many teenagers, they respond better to a friendly authority than to a disconnected, demanding one. The emotional connection also makes Jimmy closer to the rest of his command and it makes him more approachable, which I find good in a leader. That's just my opinion.
What do you think the "thing" that Jimmmy Cross told O'Brien not to mention was, and why did he not want him to mention it?
ReplyDeleteI think he was referring to the relationship him and Martha had. Although there's A LOT of stuff about that so far...
Deletei think that Jimmy Cross ened up telling O'Brien what happened (or possibly what he believed happened) to Martha that explained the way she treated him at tyhe class reunion. we can only come to our own conclusion's because there is not enough said about this topic in the book.
DeleteI think that Jimmy Told O'Brien not to mention what happened to Martha. I think jimmy wanted to come across as the good guy and not mention what happened to her because it was not his business. He wants the book to seem like he is perfect for her and she would come and beg to be with him after she read the book.
DeleteThis kind of goes along with what Lindsey says, but I'm a little confused as to why he doesn't want that kind of thing to be mentioned. Isn't love supposed to be a good thing? O'Brien talks about how much he loved Martha and how lovely she is, but why doesn't he want that mentioned? I think there is definitely a lot of unspoken background with it.
Delete-Brittany Zoppa
I do think that O'Brien wasn't allowed to mention what happened to Martha, but I wonder why O'Brien was allowed to mention all of the other details about Jimmy and Martha. If I were Jimmy, and I knew that there was going to be a book written about this "romance" in the first couple of chapters, I wouldn't want that published.
DeleteI find this chapter to be a bit odd, considering how Jimmy Cross was still in love with Martha at the high school reunion in 1979. I'd always assumed that he was obsessed with Martha in Vietnam because he hated Vietnam, and Martha seemed perfect to him in comparison. Apparently, it was more than that, because he still loved her years later. Was anybody else surprised by that?
ReplyDeleteWell maybe it was because he was obsessed with her during the war that he was still obsessed with her after. Just like in Gatsby where he makes her out to be the perfect person for so long that he can't help not loving her.
DeleteI agree, although I was not that surprised. This lasting love was a reference and a reminder of one of the many fallouts of Vietnam. When the war ended, all those soldiers returned home to broken dreams, which were all put on hold while they were away. They fancied and enlarge their hopes and dreams while in the war as a mechanism for comfort. However, when they came home they often faced sad realities that were huge let downs. I can't even imagine.
DeleteI also think it's kind of odd but as we already know, those soldiers were face to face with death everyday. The one thing Jimmy had was Martha's letters and I think he wanted to hang on to her because she was the one thing that brought peace to him in the war. In war they will do anything to take their minds off of how frightened they are. Here's a picture of how scary the war was over there so you can relate to why he wanted to hang on to something he loved.
Deletehttp://www.bing.com/images/search?q=vietnam+soldier+execution&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=vietnam+soldier+execution&sc=0-19&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&id=DF6FD6A1011D903E0A6E1B4F665EC33F690B25BE&selectedIndex=9
I don't think he was ever really in love with her, but rather the idea of her. And that is what he held unto: a thought, because that is all he had. I think he held unto this strange emotion for so long thereafter because he associated with Martha with this deep attachment built from his imagination and not reality.
DeleteI think that since Martha and Jimmy never really cleared things up he never really got the chance to get over her. He was hooked on her from the beginning and will be until the end, even if its him all alone.
DeleteI'm not going to say that I commend Jimmy Cross's obsessive behavior, but he really did need something to remind him of home, and that is what Martha was to him. And while his behavior is obsessive, what he feels for Martha seems to be love (although it is unrequited).
ReplyDeleteThis is an article about how love differs from obsession. After reading it, I have to say Jimmy is closer to being in love than he is to being obsessed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deborah-calla/the-difference-between-lo_b_562589.html